Saturday, June 2, 2012

6-Jun-12 Can there be purpose without desire?

Last week at the Ideas Cafe, we discussed detachment versus engagement.  Whether we can have both or know when to do one or the other.

The discussion led to the concept of System 1 and System 2 proposed by Daniel Kahneman's book "Thinking Fast and Slow".  System 1 is like intuition and the emotional take on things; fast and sometimes faulty judgements are formed from some unknown experiences in the past.  System 2 is the rational and analytical side, takes time and effort but provide consistent judgements from similar inputs.

Mano's take is that instead of choosing between detachment and engagement, we should have system 2, the rational side of us, constantly watching system 1, the emotional side.  We can be engaged through system 1 but system 2 should always be alert and on the lookout for those fast, confident, but wrong judgements made by system 1.

This week,  let's look at purpose and desire.

Purpose is what gives our life direction, a reason to do something, motivation to get out of bed and to endure temporary hardship and inconveniences, just so that we can reach a goal that we desire.

Some would even say that purpose is what give meaning to life.

So purpose is a good thing.  We should not be drifting through life but have a sense of purpose in what we do.

Desire, on the other hand, is the longing for something that we want.  While often used in hedonistic terms for food, drink, and sex, it is nevertheless aimed at satisfaction of what we wanted.

How is that different than the drive to reach towards a particular goal or purpose in life?

Is it the targets that differentiate purpose in the high brow heaven while casting desire in the low brow devilish territory?

Or is it the single-mindedness that characterize desire versus the measured steps taken towards reaching our purpose?

In the spirit of last week's discussion,  should we have system 2 pick the purpose for us through rational analysis but have system 1 motivate us as we see progress towards our goal?

Should system 2 pick the goal and let system 1 provide the passion?

Do we get to tell what system 1 should do if it seems to decide quickly and have a mind of its own?

Let's hear your ideas on Wednesday.

6 comments:

  1. I am reading "City of God" by Augustine of Hippo and he mentions 'inordinate desires' or desires, often for good goals, which are nevertheless immoderate or intemperant and therefore 'evil' or 'wrong'. Is it possible to desire something good but in the wrong way? Are there 16 desires as suggested in one book or is an exhaustive classification not possible?

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    1. That is a good thought. Just like the analogous Jungian 'shadow', perhaps some of our misdeeds in certain desires are actually forces of nature, willful and creative potentiality. They are presented in a 'evil' or 'wrong' form due to repression from social stigmatization and the resulting outburst, or the individual's own philosophical misunderstanding and ignorance, perhaps even the fact that what is deemed as a wrong desire is simply a spectacle of progress in a larger, positive scheme. Desires of anger, lust, gore, violence e.t.c, similar to Eckhart Tolle's teachings, do not need to be seen as impediments to meaning and satisfaction, rather wrongs (and truths) of desire can be seen as motivation, impetus, and catalysts in the physical and thought filled world to promote enlightenment. The good and the bad do not effect satisfaction, as in meaning and satisfaction, there is no true or false, no evil or justice, it is a state that has escaped the polarity of thought.
      An exhaustive definition of anything is only exhaustive to a certain criterion of time, culture, place, and location. Once the criterion changes, so does the definition. Certainly, an exhaustive classification is possible, but only with specific boundaries. Otherwise, it is safe to say, as life's only constant is change, that desires and their definitions will also be on a perpetual change.

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  2. Second comment (sorry about double posting or as the case may be pasting):
    After conducting studies involving more than 6,000 people, Reiss has found that 16 basic desires guide nearly all meaningful behavior. The desires are power, independence, curiosity, acceptance, order, saving, honor, idealism, social contact, family, status, vengeance, romance, eating, physical exercise, and tranquility.
    Feel free to check web about these desires.

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  3. It would have been wonderful, but I couldn't make it today, so I jotted down some thoughts:
    The definition of desire is more egotistical, an extension of the persona in coordinating conscious reality. Purpose deals essentially with the where, when, what, why, and how. I believe, however, there is a more fundamental spiritual reality that moderates the performance of both desire and purpose. This deeper existential background is easily identifiable and authenticated by occurring circulus in probando fallacies resulting from the argument of purpose and desire. An example would be telling an 8 year old to go to bed, then asked why, answering with sleeping early is important, asked why again, answering with the need of school attendance, asked why again, and finally disclosing the argument with 'because it just is!'. I believe the best modus vivendi in finding freedom from such paradoxes is to acknowledge a deeper, subconscious modality of existence, one which is void of beginnings, ends, labeling, one which is universal, observes and participates in the discourse of purpose, related to the conscious mind and its tendency to create thought, and desire, related to tangible impulses. That said, it is not possible to come to a conclusion on the exact correlations, applications, manners, conducts, and formalities of purpose and desire, but rather one has to accept the nature of human identification with purpose and desire as something collectively archetypal and innate, and the need for dialogue upon purpose and desire as a phenomenon that will last for centuries to come. Description is the highest standard in recognizing the qualities and interplay between purpose and desire, as what we believe to be purposeful and desirable maneuver with situations, circumstances, and environments through out the eons, continuously appearing in different forms through a diversity of nurturing. Certainly though, description should always be cautioned with contemplation, meditation, and cultivation. Another consideration would be the verifiability in modern yardsticks of purpose and desire. As what we think matures and advances with era, geography, culture, and society, so is the possibility that aspects of purpose and desire we cling onto today were actually myths, stories, or interpretations contrived in past circumstances. Not realizing the 'authenticity' of purpose and desire here and now can also be jeopardizing. As we see,through depth psychology, the lack of acknowledgement towards the human potential, combined with hyper-suggestibility, and a dissociative identity can lead to claims of possession, exorcism, receiving the holy spirit, and other religious rituals, the lack in understanding our purpose and desires can also be perilous to progress, resulting in excessive optimism and pessimism. As we know, chasing after happiness does not necessarily make one happy.
    Thank you! I hope to join the conversation next week :)

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  4. Purpose without desire may be pointless and may lead to negative results. Not to say every thing I do "ought" to give me good "vibes" but desire here isn't like the one I have for chocolate! Sometimes I gotta do things that are difficult if I want to finish the triathalon. Months of training, and for what? Its not the goal but the thrill of the chase! And I sincerely believe that.

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    1. Would the purpose of being in the triathlon be to satisfy the desire to experience the thrill of the chase?

      So purpose follow desire?

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