Meeting on is pleasure a sin?

Definitely not!

So said the small group we had last night at Halloween.

Shula reiterated her position that sin is defined by religion, a deity that set the rules for us to trespass before we become a "sinner".

What about civil and criminal code established by our society and when we breach those?  Well, that is committing an illegal act but different than having sinned which laid on an extra layer of guilt and obligation to the deity.

Imagine the concept of original sin and having "fallen".  We are guilty and obligated before we came into existence.

In this non religious world view, pleasure is on its own, something pleasant to us, a positive feeling in seeing or feeling something performing well or happening as it should. 

If it affect others negatively, then we need to be aware of the effect on others but having a pleasurable experience is not "sinful", "wrong", or in any form inappropriate.

Then why is sin and guilt such a pervasive feeling in society?

I can't help feeling that there is a hint of post modernist view in saying that there is nothing inappropriate with pleasure at all.  The implication is that everything is fine if a person thinks so, that there are no fixed rules.

Makes me think that religion's grip on humanity may be rooted in

1.  That we grew up with rules before we can think for ourselves.  Our parents and teachers laid out what we can and cannot do, with consequences of punishment or reward based on our breaking or adhering to those rules.  This set us up to accepting rules imposed on us by religion using the deity as their authority.

2.  That rules simplify our daily living.  If we have to evaluate everything that we do in terms of its implication to our future and to others, we will freeze in our tracks and not make much progress.  Rules simplify all this to commonly accepted dos and don'ts allowing us to move on and only stop to contemplate the major issues in terms of implications. 

3.  That with rules come enforcement,  there has to be deterrent in order for the rules to have effect. Heaven, Hell, sin follows.  There also have to be policing and judgment. Here, organized religion cannot help themselves from being the judge and also sellers of forgiveness.

4.  That pleasures involving material possessions, lust, gluttony, sloth, are all appealing to our hedonistic side with sometimes averse effects to our long term well being. Having rules is a simple way to balance off the long term considerations against our short term urges.   Having a deity from religion adds more weight to the rule.


Unfortunately, the order and efficiency afforded by rules brought in other issues.  Rule makers and enforces are often tempted by the power entrusted in them.  Guilt weighs heavy on us for breaking the rules and "sinful pleasures" arise from nothing more than just breaking the rules.

Small price to pay or not worth the neurosis?  Either way,  to me, the important thing is to understand the underlying cause.

Our discussion also drifted to the source of sexual repression over the ages.  Raffi said it all has to do with property rights, that we only want to pass property on to those who are truly our own children. Therefore the importance of sexual fidelity to both the heavy responsibility of raising children as well as passing on one's inheritance.

This view is supported by the behavior of matriarchal societies with communal property such as Polynesian societies that were not monogamous.

Does this mean that sexual conservatism is no longer valid now that we have good birth control?