Should we admire an artist or athlete for their talent or their effort?

We had a great discussion in the North Vancouver Ideas Cafe tonight.

Shula started off with the first point that it is the result that we admire, not so much of the reason as to whether it is talent or hard work.  We appreciate good music and inspiring athletic performance on its own.

But what about Terry Fox and Rick Hansen, who had to overcome extraordinary obstacles.  It is their persevering over these obstacles that is the object of admiration, not the result of crossing the finish line.

Mano pointed out that we do not need to look at things on an either/or exclusive of each other basis.  We can admire someone for both their talent and their effort or a combination of both.  We can also admire the end result on its own regardless of how it was achieved.

As the discussion went on, it became clear that the word "admire" is rather loose with several meanings. It can mean appreciation, recognition of extraordinary accomplishment, or just liking something that is good to look at, and to know.

Rafi pointed out that good looking people are known to get further ahead in society with less effort.  It is similar to talent.

But then again, even the predisposition to work hard may also be a trait we are born with;  in which case the desire to work hard to accomplish is no different than talent and beauty?

Blair thinks that hard work can only get so far, especially with something creative like music.  However, he would still rather hire a hard worker over someone who is talented.

Leagh agreed that talent is not important as being dependable and hardworking for most jobs.  However, as the discussion continues, it became apparent that there may be jobs where creativity is more important than being dependable and hardworking.  It is just that the vast majority of jobs are better served by the hard worker.

Poets are a good example of creativity over hard work.

Steve Nash is an example of a successful basketball player in spite of not being a very tall person.  Michael Jordan is an example of a tall basketball player who is successful not only because he is tall.

So we can admire the end result, the effort, the will, the normalcy of the artist or athlete in spite of their success.

We can also admire ordinary people doing their task against stiff challenges with little recognition from others.

But the admiration tends to come from something extraordinary and over our expectations.  It is hard to admire people doing routine tasks such as making toast or boiling water (unless some challenging situation which makes this exceptional).

What we should not admire is the herd behavior of what is "popular" for no other reason than other people like it.  This then branch off into a discussion of how to appreciate art and music that we do not currently appreciate.  Is this an "acquire taste" that we should train ourself? or is our taste correct in judging it bad art no matter how many other people like it?

Topic for another day!